Classpect discussion

[egg]

Equius's hella strong punches, I would say, would be more of a "this is this troll's special ability" sorta thing rather than an aspect thing. It doesn't seem to be the sorta thing that has much to do with the void theme.

Roxy also uses fistkind, so I wouldn't be too sure about that. We never see Horuss fight, but given the intentional parallels between the dancestors and their counterparts I'd bet he does, too.
About the glitch-faq thing, you're not alone in that. It's an interpretation that a lot of Classpect theorycrafters over the years have stuck to, because otherwise you would only have 144 types of people in existence.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

Well, closer to 168, if you account for muses and lords.

I have another point of evidence towards Princes and Bards being about misleading and deception:

Crowbar is introduced in the Felt as the guy who has a destroying juju. Destruction, what Princes and Bards are supposedly about. But we know the juju, unlike Die and his doll, has nothing to do with Crowbar.

https://www.homestuck.com/story/6022

MAROON HAT.
I CAN'T TELL WHAT HIS POWER IS.
WHAT IS HIS POWER.
He doesn't have a power.
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME.
No.
THAT'S A NEW LOW. EVEN FOR THESE SHIT HEADS.
But maroon hat is pretty smart!
You can use him as a higher ranking henchman or something.
BEING SMART ISN'T A POWER.
PLUS. I DOUBT IT. HOW SMART CAN ONE OF THESE IMBECILES BE.

He's smart. That's his gimmick. This is another point towards Princes and Bards having some sort of connection to knowledge.

Look at the color of his hat. What else do you have that's that color?
UHH.
Also, what object can you think of that's kinda shaped like a 7?
HMM.
OH!!!
OHHHHHHHHHHH.
OF COURSE.
A BOOMERANG!
Ok, I give up.
I WILL MAKE A MENTAL NOTE TO SECURE A BOOMERANG IN THE FUTURE.
YES. IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. TO BE A BOOMERANG. THEMATICALLY.
BECAUSE IT ALWAYS COMES BACK AROUND. IN ONE BIG CIRCLE. LIKE ALL THE TIME SHIT. I'M SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT!

Boomerangs move in a shitty twist.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

https://www.homestuck.com/story/4513

TG: its just that footage of my mom does that too
TG: like blacks out and stuff
TG: mom was a notoirious scourge to the papayazzi
TG: or i mean
TG: the womom who im supposed to be genetically descended from
TG: *womam
TG: know what i mean?
UU: i Understand what yoU're getting at, yes.
UU: it is certainly possible that we may have common groUnd with oUr ancestors when it comes to oUr aspects, and the way oUr abilities reveal themselves to Us. i coUld not rUle this oUt.
UU: bUt there is always more to examine.
UU: for instance, a hero of life and a hero of doom have aspects as different as can be.
UU: bUt if their classes are different enoUgh as well, that is, one active and the other passive, remarkably there is a chance they coUld end Up with very similar abilities!

Wait, since Rogues are confirmed for passive, does this mean Seers are active? I'm really dumb.

I think Seers are still passive, but less so.

[PhosofRadiance]

https://www.homestuck.com/story/4513

TG: its just that footage of my mom does that too
TG: like blacks out and stuff
TG: mom was a notoirious scourge to the papayazzi
TG: or i mean
TG: the womom who im supposed to be genetically descended from
TG: *womam
TG: know what i mean?
UU: i Understand what yoU're getting at, yes.
UU: it is certainly possible that we may have common groUnd with oUr ancestors when it comes to oUr aspects, and the way oUr abilities reveal themselves to Us. i coUld not rUle this oUt.
UU: bUt there is always more to examine.
UU: for instance, a hero of life and a hero of doom have aspects as different as can be.
UU: bUt if their classes are different enoUgh as well, that is, one active and the other passive, remarkably there is a chance they coUld end Up with very similar abilities!

Wait, since Rogues are confirmed for passive, does this mean Seers are active? I'm really dumb.

I think Seers are still passive, but less so.

I've read through most of what you've said and I still don't quite understand how you are coming to the conclusions that you are.
I am sure it is simply me misunderstanding. Is there a way you could condense your theory?
Also, how would Rogues being Passive mean Seers are Active?

[Dream Muttman]

The argument is Alpha Rose is exhibiting Void powers because she's a Hero of Light of opposite alignment.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

Active/Passive stuff is a scale. Seers are passive, but they're closer to the middle than Rogues

[thorondraco]

The argument is Alpha Rose is exhibiting Void powers because she's a Hero of Light of opposite alignment.

I have secondary theory.

Basically with Alt calliope we learn that someone can jack someone else's body and use it as a medium for themselves.

What if some horror terror had, subtly, Jacked rose's body? It gave her a lot of power, albeit only Jake's hope powers seem to be able to overpower the green sun, but what if it also allowed the horror terror involved to do something in secret? Plant seeds to some grander plan? And after it was done Rose's soul was 'gifted' with void abilities?

Basically Rose became a Warlock class.

[thorondraco]

Kinda had a thought about Life bound and the thief aspect.

Life bound normally tend to have a natural compassion to them but also a desire for control. Feferi and Jane are both inherently kind, though Jane is also a bit selfish at times and oblivious too. They both can also be a bit mean in general but that is because they are also controlling in some way. Feferi is more passive about it of course, but Jane more embraces this desire for control.

A thing to note with both of them too is that it seems that when they are working to take control from an oppressor or negative force, the more positive side of the Lifebound are displayed. But when control is just given to them or given too easily, their worse, more controlling traits and encouraged.
The cruelty and kindness are not disparate forces but two sides of the same desire. They want life to thrive, people to thrive, they have a desire to be leaders but they need something to keep them in check and grounded.
Jane in candy is the life aspect at its worse to the point she is destroying her aspect in an almost prince like manner. Nanna however could be seen as the life aspect at its best. She had the power and control, but when the batterwitch left for the Alpha timeline to repeat things there, Nanna gave it up to live a normal life instead. All of these characters probably have had incarnations at their best and at their worst, many of them are the middling ground.

Then comes the aspect of the Thief. I think that the Thief class represents a selfish desire and intent of the Aspect. The Thief is... Well perhaps the term Evil is not accurate entirely but they are the more selfish and prone to destructive actions. They inherently side more on the darker side of their aspects and are by nature self sabotaging. They can be geniuses in obtaining what they want but every, single time, they squander their gains, unable to keep it.They find their treasure and spend it too quickly, or lose it through tier own foolishness. Savants that cannot sustain their talents.
I think they try to fill a void in their hearts, their existences, that cannot be filled and thus they can consume and consume in a gluttonous frenzy, unable to be satisfied. The empress might in fact be the ultimate example. She desires control over life, but destroys all the life under her command without exception, and thus seeks more treasure and more lives to claim, only to lose them too. The void never fills cause they never keep the treasure they seek and must seek more or shut down.
She didn't deliberately destroy humanity she just kept on forcing her own view of how things worked, or she thought things worked at least. Lusus, droids, she wanted things to remain the same..... She is exactly like Vriska in that regard. Thieves may hate change, for all the change they create with their actions.

Oooh wait what if the shit Vriska goes through is kind of one of the reprequesits to the thief class? The emptiness they seek to fill and maybe personality disorders, doubt in oneself? A doubt masked by a facade, and behaviors, of self importance and what they believe is strength? A kind of dysphoria with their own identity and a desperate desire to never appear vulnerable. And more so to be seen and understood, the opposite of the rogue who tries to obscure themselves.

which means there is more going on underneath the hoods of both Meenah and the empress. Perhaps they are worse than Vriska because of the aspects and the tendencies they related to. By nature Vriska seeks fortune and knowledge because of her light aspect and it can cause her to slow down at times. Meenah and the empress just surge forward ahead...

When Meenah broke up with ghost vriska, she said that she was 'bad' and was visibly uncomfortable around her. We thought it was mostly because she was bored, and i was htinking that too at first. But then Meenah shed tears over it... And then there is that moment where she, seemingly comedically, begged John to prevent her from stealing the ring of life from him...

Fuck Dirk, i wanna Meenah pesterquest, there is SHIT there man.

[thorondraco]

Also in general terms of aspects and classes, i think aspects and class and manifestations of both nature and nurture. Aspects are an inherent base nature, not a blank template but a template of inherent desires and traits. Nurture is how the individual develops from their environment and, thus, the manifestation of their Class from the skills and comprehension of the world they gain through those traits......
Thing is i think that this system would function even outside of Paradox space's fate based system. Without the fate based system people would be more free to develop the Classes. Far as we know classes could secretly have evolution and ranks. However by the nature of Narrative class and aspect somewhat function identically because the story can be made so that someone in a totally different situation can still develop the traits of that class. John was an heir of breath because paradox space molded his experiences to facilitate the development of the class.

Basically the classpects are both templates and the personal manifestations of a person's inner self. Like many things in paradox space, it can be more than one thing at once.

[UnAttainedGallantry]

I have been told I am a Knight of Rage. It does explain my fascination with Purplebloods.
Though, I assure you, any temper I have is under control and well-managed.

[overThinker]

i've been trying to decide for literally months but i think i've settled on heir of light, although the canon quiz has given me mind and time as well as light (i kind of just suck at taking quizzes lol). i see light as simply "knowledge" and i've always had a strong, sometimes detrimental attraction to educational things and stuff like that. i'm not "intelligent" really per se but i'm generally obsessive over knowing everything i can, be it for school or just a hobby/interest (like homestuck lol). given that heirs control/are controlled by their aspect, i think it fits. and rose is my favorite character

[AsherCrane]

I’m a Rogue of Light, although it’s fluctuated quite a bit.

Personally, I do subscribe to using the gendered classes for the sake of determining how classpects work, passive/active alignment, and position on the scale solely because, since it’s in the comic, it seems likely to me that the classpect was designed up to that point with gendered classes in mind, so it would work with a framework of having the gendered classes in mind.
Do I think it it’s a good thing that some classes were considered gendered at some point? No.
Do I think gendered classpects being applied to real-life, fan, or other literary works is better than ignoring it? Of course not.
But I do believe that if the system was created with gendered classes initially in mind, it makes sense to use that feature as a tool, even if I disagree with it. Looking at BKEW’s Class/Aspect Role table, a fair amount of his layout is centrally based on the gendered class situation, so to ignore or remove that would be to demolish a fair amount of the current aspect theory.

As far as Andrew Hussie feels that expounding on classes would constrain us with his bad ideas... All I really want are the class verbs, like Steal and Destroy. From there, I'd love to figure out what the actually means, and how it applies to the characters and other fiction. Figuring out how destruction applies to Eridan and Dirk symbolically is an enjoyable experience, but there's a massive limit on how much I can do it with other classes if I'm not even sure I am basically right.

[kingof555]

a bard of doom

one who allows doom to be destroyed, or destroys using doom.

im not sure how much that says about me, or what powers it has, but thats what i am, i guess...

i do resonate with sollux alot (as you can clearly tell) but not with most of the doombound in friendsim.

i dont resonate with gamzee or cronus, but thats probably thier aspect, and not thier class.

in general, i think the title is very fitting, but idk.

[epimetheusEmrys]

I’ve already posted here but a lot has happened since then. I talked to some people in-depth about classpect stuff and they eventually identified me as a Mage of Rage. Apparently it’s for a multitude of reasons.
First of all, without getting into too much detail, let’s just say I’ve been well acquainted with my and others’ anger from a young age. I’ve suffered from my own temper in particular. Don’t worry, I’ve got that part of myself under control for now, mostly. But those experiences have given me a deeper understanding of my own anger and flaws.
Secondly, the other part of Rage, which is Doubt. I am a very negative person. Not negative as in “sad”, but negative as in focusing on downsides and flaws. I admit that I am rather critical of myself and of my friends. I’ll always point out when they’re being hypocritical or a jerk, but I’ll also do the same to myself. Some people have even told me I can be quite hard on myself sometimes. I guess it’s because I respect myself and my friends enough to know when they (or I) aren’t being the best they can, so I try to point it out.
This, and a variety of other personal factors, led me to believe that I am a Seer or Mage of Rage. Since I can be kind of a self-centered person, Mage seemed to fit better than Seer. And maybe because I wanted to be cool like Sollux.
As for abilities, I figure a Mage of Rage would be like some kind of negative emotion wizard. Maybe like one of those Shichimen Warriors from Sekiro, using spooky fear magic. That would be cool. But if you’ve got a better idea tell me, I wanna hear your Mage of Rage headcanons.

[Generalrabogolfo]

a bard of doom

one who allows doom to be destroyed, or destroys using doom.

im not sure how much that says about me, or what powers it has, but thats what i am, i guess...

i do resonate with sollux alot (as you can clearly tell) but not with most of the doombound in friendsim.

i dont resonate with gamzee or cronus, but thats probably thier aspect, and not thier class.

in general, i think the title is very fitting, but idk.

yo highfive fellow bard

[kingof555]

[syrupsand]

So im a maid of doom i think?
The extended zodiac says my aspect is doom
A class quiz i took said i am a maid(even tho im a straight male)
So what i wanna know is do you need to be female to be a maid?
Also im thinking that i am a maid because i basically mostly think that i doom myself(create doom)
For example: i dont have much willpower to do anything, i am lazy af, i dont really believe in myself and think that there is nothing that will stop me from failing which eventually dooms me.
Am i rite boiz

[pfeffer-29]

You can 100% be a maid and a boy simultaneously. The general consensus is that gendered classes don't exist.

[classpectanon]

the out of universe explanation is that gendered classes are stupid. the in-universe explanation is that calliope's information was from a poor source and thus was incorrect about gendered classes existing (when you have time, consider rereading homestuck from a PoV of bias in narratorship -- it takes on a very different lens in that context, particularly skaia's supposed benevolence!)

[pfeffer-29]

I'm an Heir of Mind. I'm pretty sure about the Mind part because I often think about how my life would go if I made different choices and have crippling indecision whenever faced with choices that seem equal in outcome. Also, I like debating and writing stories, which I guess is a sort of Mind-y thing to do.

No idea about the class though. I took some class quizzes, got Heir, and was like, "ok cool I guess that kinda fits".

edit: thank you classpectanon, very helpful