Broken Troll Worldbuilding discussion

[thorondraco]

There are legitimate and powerful ways to make something that was initially funny take on a deeper and more dramatic or tragic meaning. There are also bullshit asspull ways that make something that was innocuous and a joke into a confusing snarl of continuity errors and Cerebus Syndrome. Some of the ones in Homestuck work out pretty well (Rose’s gothic interest in horrorterrors becoming a major detriment to her mental state, for example) but others don’t work as well (troll worldbuilding)

I think the truth is Hussie didn't really have much worldbuilding for the trolls to begin with.

But now they are working on an actual world to build... I wonder if there is an in unvierse reasoning to this.

Let us say that in universe hussies narrated the trolls into existence as he did humans, but he, in universe, stank at world-building and lore. Its why he was mostly sarcastic with lore in act 6 though was still implying something, though we can presume the lore he is talking about with Cherubs was not something he had power over, and that Cherubs were something before hussie perhaps. Why a cherub fucked him over so bad.
Basically he was an objective and character based author, more focused on going from a to b and character stuff than he was world building.

But now we have some entity who is very, very into world building who is generating Hiveswap and, in return, Building the troll species up. And as a result is affecting homestuck by having it that 'hey, trolls got some lore and more defined supahpowers now.' For examples confirming troll strength and such.

Basically we are seeing reality be reshaped by taking advantage of the things hussie neglected.

[calamityCons]

That is a possibility, but I think it's unfair to say Hussie didn't care about worldbuilding. The systems and world design and complex computer science symbolism in the original Skaia narrative and the kids' uninterrupted game of Sburb was clearly very thought out and Hussie himself said he kept a note of how much an item cost in grist and in what types. It's only over time that the story of winning a game of Sburb, a creation myth set in the internet age, began to fall by the wayside and stop being the focus of the story. In my opinion that was to its detriment, because now instead of paying attention to the well-built and engaging mansion of skaia we are now spending oodles and oodles of time trying to make sense of the hastily assembled bones of a shack we diverted to back in Act 5 without actually tearing down and refurbishing anything.

[thorondraco]

That is a possibility, but I think it's unfair to say Hussie didn't care about worldbuilding. The systems and world design and complex computer science symbolism in the original Skaia narrative and the kids' uninterrupted game of Sburb was clearly very thought out and Hussie himself said he kept a note of how much an item cost in grist and in what types. It's only over time that the story of winning a game of Sburb, a creation myth set in the internet age, began to fall by the wayside and stop being the focus of the story. In my opinion that was to its detriment, because now instead of paying attention to the well-built and engaging mansion of skaia we are now spending oodles and oodles of time trying to make sense of the hastily assembled bones of a shack we diverted to back in Act 5 without actually tearing down and refurbishing anything.

I meant in universe Hussie. Real world hussie really liked it but i think his ideas were less complex. And the fandom might have inspired him to do more with it in general, and doing so through hiveswap stuff. Bleeding into the main homestuck stuff.

Basically the theory i am working with is that in universe Trolls were not super well developed by in universe Hussie, but some force is now developing them and giving them more meat as a race and story element. So the truth is the trolls were poorly developed beforehand especially compared to sburb, but someone is building the trolls up.

Basically its like if God only kind half made adam and someone came in to finish humanity's design and social characterization.

Which leaves the question of who the fuck is responsible?

i do think that Hussie meant the lack of focus on sburb to be thematic. Specifically thematic in that sburb lost influence on the proceedings and the character temporarily usurped control. It is super rough and if it was done well is in the eye of the beholder ultimately. Still we are liable to learn more about sburb later on in homestuck^2

[thorondraco]

If trolls have noses i will only in any way accept if they look like this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVSdV_JU0AI ... =4096x4096

A, gives them a breathy holes on their face, and B, its exotic and alien enough and would fit their otherwise flat faced depictions.

[Bahinchut]

I don't know if this is broken world-building per say, but the moons in Hiveswap's Alternia are inconsistent with the ones in Homestuck. The AU explanation doesn't quite cut it because the green moon is presumably Doc Scratch's handiwork. Also, the progressive babification of trolls from being a ruthless race of psychopaths to grey humans who sometimes feel kinda quirky and take a life >uO

[foreverFlummoxed]

I don't know if this is broken world-building per say, but the moons in Hiveswap's Alternia are inconsistent with the ones in Homestuck. The AU explanation doesn't quite cut it because the green moon is presumably Doc Scratch's handiwork.

How so? Alternia (and Beforus) have the pink moon with that moon having it's own small pink satellite, and Alternia specifically has the green moon due to Doc Scratch, where is the inconsistency you see?

Edit: If it's the "size difference" then the most logical explanation is that from different perspectives, different space objects will seem bigger/smaller than each other.

Edit^2: Just thought of this, it's not even known whether or not the Alternian moons follow an orbit that keeps them the same distance from the planet or if at certain points one (& ¹/₂) will be closer than the other(s)

[Bahinchut]

Edit: If it's the "size difference" then the most logical explanation is that from different perspectives, different space objects will seem bigger/smaller than each other.

It is the size difference. I probably should've addressed this originally, but there are promotional shots of Alternia from space where the the pink moon is very markedly larger than the green one. Technically that also could be explained through perspective, but there's two reasons why I don't buy that.

1. Visually speaking its a little confusing. Unless you were specifically drawing some bizzarre persepective shot, visual clarity dictates you would show each moon in some stage of orbit that would accurately depict their sizes.

2. The fact that the pink moon is so consistently depicted as being (or appearing to be) larger than the green moon from multiple angles and locations implies that it was an intentional decision to make the green moon smaller and the pink moon larger. I sincerely doubt someone at WP thought that the pink moon should be in a very specific stage of orbit to make it appear bigger, so my instincts tell me that it really is bigger.

I do believe its an inconsistency, albeit a deliberate one. What significance it has on Hiveswap, I'll probably never know.

EDIT: I should also add that I mentioned Scratch's involvement in the existence of the green moon because I presume that if Hiveswap takes place in an alternate universe, Scratch probably isn't around and thus neither should the green moon be. In hindsight, Scratch could just as well have his fingers all over this random Alternia as well, but I really don't think there's enough information to assume either scenario.